JUST A BUSINESS – Paul “ReDeYe” Chaloner


hello and welcome at Manila major and here with me is mr. Cosmo glass also knows as Paul chillin are also now has red eye the ambassador of eSports which is a right Wow the damn passenger the Ambassador yeah I guess as a worker of gfinity you have traveled to different to even continents and you have done lots of things like establishing South African pro league so yes you are you have a global impact on eSports what continents and what regions still fall behind in different aspects and why not just in certain disciplines but in general um I think when we look at the international scene across a range of games you could probably say that Africa is still a long way behind in many ways but they are starting to come up there’s a guy named he sports federation for example there is a plenty going on in morocco right now so the africa is obviously mobilizing as well as done really well with their dgo telkom league but they’re still a long way behind and it’s partly because they’re geographically challenged rather than behind in a detrimental way if you like and they just cut off from being involved in a lot of the big internationals I think India is a sleeping giant right now I think as a ton of gamers out in India and Pakistan who are itching to come and play on the world stage and plan international toilets and then outside of that I think Australia working really hard and we’ve seen lots of players and teams coming out of Australia now which is great but they’re still they still need more development and then probably South America as well is another we’ve had making progress of peruvians playing obviously with dota we’ve had luminosity in tempo storm doing really well in counter-strike and so Brazil has always been quite a good eSports country but I’m talking about the other countries I’m talking about Mexico Argentina Chile Uruguay Paraguay where are the stars from these these countries because there are undoubtedly some great eSports players in those countries they just haven’t had the same opportunities as there as their brazilian cousins yet so i think there’s still a lot there’s still a lot to do and what about the UK so you have we have lots of journalists we have lots of talents yep and some personal players but we don’t have the British eSport industry in any discipline why what’s up I think historically we’ve probably fallen behind in the UK I think when you look back to sort of mid 2000s 2004-2005 we had very large teams team AMD gamer we had four kings we had dignity at and some very very big multi gaming organizations and they were big back then you know had great counter strike teams with British players and we had some great quake players back in the day as well so I don’t necessarily think we’ve we’ve never been there but we’ve somehow fallen behind over the last ten years and it’s mainly because we haven’t had the kind of organization as happened elsewhere so in Germany you have yourself reeks to you lots of big organizations you have lots of team houses lots of teams have moved there you have LCS and riot built out of Berlin so structure is there right so everything is in place the difference is in the last probably 12 to 18 months UK has now become a bit of a hub in Europe and it’s starting to become a really powerful wii sports nation maybe not necessarily on the on the world stage in terms of player success but we’ve seen players like bakery and team dignitas in heroes of the storm doing really well some of our thief players have been fantastic Shaun Allen who’s he’s now west ham united’s FIFA player has been in finals before and been to the interactive world cup so we’ve got plans that can do it and you’re right I think the only time we ever reached a final in the past was when I was hosting a tournament right or you know when one of our casters was casting the final and that was the joke we would hope we would always be in the finals but only ever cast the results so I think that’s going to change over the next three to five years I think there’s some exciting things happening in the UK we have gfinity we have faced it now based in London doing some great stuff with twitch we have moly play starting to eSports really well yes our nails built studios in Leicester which are state-of-the-art they’re fantastic they’ve already run a few events there so when you look at that already that’s for really big organizers of it yes or three years it’s a good thing yeah and we’ve done that in the last comment Koreans had made a future progress and go to like in a year and a half but they had all the infrastructure yes they have the base yappity of the yeah and so we’re putting that infrastructure in the place and we’ve had some massive events in the UK in the last two years right have been there with Wembley Arena we’ve had pro league coming over in the last couple of weeks so things are getting bigger and bigger Dreamhack obviously took over the Olympic Park gfinity if taken over the Olympic Park there’s so much going on now in the UK that I get the sense of feeling for the first time in a long time but actually things are about to snowball and on top of that the UK government are now starting to get involved and they’re starting to do you know taking sports seriously I’ve had several meetings with with officials recently where we’re talking about things like associations and regulation helping grassroots stuff so get a much better sense that things are starting to happen positively for the UK in terms of eSports and also you should involve Prince Harry he’s a good media personify enough we we may well be working with the royal family on some stuff so yeah just he’s definitely the goal yeah win also yeah I’m sure she’s a gamer that oh you started your gaming well it’s not career your gaming gaming after 80s so yes I did when was the time that he had a quick what was the game that made the click and you understood that wow it’s going to be a huge blast in the future oh wow ah probably not in the 80s I mean I started with personal computers in the early 80s dragon 32 thanks to my stepfather spectrum commodore amiga atari st all of those in Tendo 64 in the mid 90s I think probably the first game for me that I really felt like okay this could be really competitive and I can do well at it you know I can succeed and I can play on the pliers was probably unreal tournament which would have been around 99 so yeah quite late 90s in the end but I think early on in the 2000s it was probably counter strike yeah you could see that actually the skill levels were rising the team’s becoming better and better and there were bigger bigger events and tournaments going on so I think between quake unreal tournament and chemistry I think there were the early games for me where I thought okay this this now looks like it could be it could be as big as a sport one day well okay we had teams we had tournaments but casting and hosting was not a staff until the 2000s and you were actually the first who thought that it could be the next big thing to establish as an industry so at which point did you realize that having a competitive scene it’s not enough it’s not enough for you for everyone you should build you should implement all the other things like analysts and commentators and hosts yeah I wouldn’t say I was the first but one of the early ones for sure I think 2002 was first time I commentated on anything I didn’t really think it was a career back then we didn’t think of it as a career and 2004-2005 I think people like DJ week myself few other people around that time we’d have to spend more time convincing tournaments that they should have commentators you know let alone panelists or host or any of these desks that we have now just just have two commentators only event was it was a real that was hard work you know we had to persuade eswc for instance to have commentators of their events or even on a free basis yeah even on the free basis yeah well yeah because they wouldn’t it it didn’t naturally fit with them because they’ve done these tournaments for several years already without them and they were perfectly fine so why would they suddenly need commentators oh so they didn’t see them the media impact of video games should be even no not at the beginning so we spent a lot of time persuading them once we persuaded them and they were like wow actually this is really cool these guys are really great and the crowd really enjoyed because they get a much better experience okay we should have these guys back and then once we started going back we were able to kind of start saying world you need to pay for our flights and a hotel right because we were doing that to start with as well we were actually by I remember all of us went to quakecon with radio itg i think it was 2004-2005 and we all pay for our own flights I think Intel gave us two rooms which we had to share between Lake six of us hmm ah and we got no payment at all we were lucky we were told we were lucky to get some space but still it was a hard start yeah see the result you see the fruit yeah and talking of all this traveling and all this stuff do you still feel like you you enjoy it or is it became a bit more routine for you the traveling the traveling and all this hosting commentating stuff no not at the job still is still really cool it did really defeats in the business and studio yes actually yeah absolutely and I think the day that I I finally don’t get a buzz from coming to do this and that’s obviously done right that’s it I’m finished because if I don’t enjoy then why would I carry on doing anymore because it’s I could certainly earn more money doing something else for sure but I genuinely enjoy still I love coming to these events it’s really exciting we’ve just had our production meeting we’re all psyched and ready to go for for the milliner major and we’re really you know can’t wait to get on with the show we’re really excited to see how the teams play so I still get a kick out of all of that the travelling is this different I stopped for a little bit last year because the travelling really was really was tiring but then I think event organizers starting to understand if we arrive happy and fresh and ready to go we’re generally better on camera and so they’re treating us a bit nicer so we tend to get business flights more often now for long-haul which does make a difference definitely it means I arrived and I’m fresher and I’m happier and that’s that also makes the travel a little less stressful too I mean it’s just nicer to be able to travel like that so yes the travel is is sometimes a pain and sometimes retiring and boring at times but I think if that’s the payment that you make to come and do something you love doing then it’s kind of ok right it’s not that bad definitely I mean you could be doing some other jobs which are very unenjoyable and horrible and I’m not so I’m I don’t really want to complain too much about bad travel because you know I get to do a cool job and also one of the good things to be you because you’re not what fixed to some certain game because now usually people have to spend their time they dedicate themselves to one bait rally two disciplines you have been connected to like 50 different titles right 59 games apparently yeah there was a fan recently did went back in time and figured out all the games that I’d ever done and commentate it or hosted and it’s 59 right now which is pretty huge thing so what about the next killed you have 60 i think i’m waiting for overwatch i think that’s how you haven’t like a crowded so i might have tried a little bit yeah but how long does it take you to get soaked into the game to at least get the robes understand the basics I think it’s different for different tiers right so if I’m a stage host then actually not very long because I don’t need to know the game inside out I know you don’t need to know the depth or strategies quite so heavily I might need to know the scene quite well so I’ll study players teams form history means it’s a pieces from the community try and understand what their language is because every every game has a slightly different language and the way that you would talk still it’s from to what amount of time I mean it’s a stage host if it’s counter-strike for instance maybe a couple hours prep that’s easy yes a couple of hours prep for a whole tournament because it’s stage host it’s not that difficult and my role is more hype and introductions and entertainment so if I’m not that person then I shouldn’t be doing that role right so that’s comes fairly naturally if it’s a desk ho stroll much longer the desk hosting is much more intricate it requires a much deeper analysis of preparation that one can go from anywhere to from 40 hours to 250 hours for a tournament thing on the size the experience money involved teams involved and also how well you already know the game so my first outer event i think i probably spent six weeks prepping for the first one I did because I knew almost nothing so I had to start from scratch so I had to play the game and i’m at played 100 hours just to get kind of used to what it is i probably then watched four to five hundred hours worth of odds different matches then i do team prep and learn about the team histories then i do player prep of each team and really study each player and understand how old they are how long they’ve been playing who they’ve played for were there for ms or the historical moments are what they’ve won what they’ve not one who they’ve played with what alliances they formed so that takes a long time so anywhere from 40 hours to a few hundred hours in most cases so for Manila I would say it’s probably 20 about 300 hours I guess all in but that includes a few days with PGL as well and working on scripts and working on show run downs and writing shows and figuring out format and giving feedback on graphics watching videos of player profiles that we can figure out how we fit them into the storyline working with the stacks guys with net with Knox and witness figure out if we got any milestones coming up and we use those in the story lines themselves keeping track of dough to read it because you know it’s great for all the stuff that’s going on in the scene watching other matches watching other tournaments dreamleague obviously going to epicenter so it’s fairly involved as a desk coast and then as a commentator actually it’s probably even more and it’s partly why I don’t comment ate as much anymore because I think you have to be completely soaked in the game you can’t really do multiple games there are very few commentators now that can do more than one or two games right Toby does three or four games but it’s impossible to do any more than that and do them really really well okay some of the ESL commentates pansy for instance does four or five really good games Jason captain does the same but it’s very rare that you can dedicate your your entire career to more than one game as a caster because you just need to be so good at everything it’s not just knowing the team’s knowing the players knowing the form knowing the storyline all the stuff the Disco snows you have to know all of that and then you need to have really good game knowledge you need to know exactly what players play items builds different heroes it’s just mind-blowing how much information I also on some sleep occasionally I’ve heard that sleep is good yeah but i’m just gonna do that when i’m dead right no it’s myth right way sleeping is a myth ok and as a person who sees the whole picture so every year we have new titles that want to be get like planned to become in sports like last week last year we had rocket League and Rainbow six siege what do you think do they still have potential to be global like football or basketball our real life or will it become again eSports popular eSports but sort of a more niche like cricket mmm people pray play cricket profession we play cricket in the UK very well sometimes but we do attempt to play cricket in the UK and I think it’s I mean I’m seeing a different side of things I started a consultancy business in in eSports three months ago and I’ve started consulting for different developers and publishers / that at three months and it’s very interesting because they they will use me for different parts of their games and so I can give you an example so one game I’m working on they want me to help them with the broadcasting how do we broadcast this game really well and that’s really interesting because they’re kind of tapping into my broadcast knowledge of how do we show this game right which is really interesting i can give them ideas about implementation of hotkeys how we want to view stuff for a caster point of view how we can display to the viewer better other companies are actually like honestly they come and they go what’s a duel tournament bracket we don’t understand how that works can you help us so it’s a very different set of skills right and so when you combine all of that you just think about those two examples alone when a games company comes in and once they’re going to be any sport what do they know about eSports they know very little actually mostly and that’s not insulting them they just they know how to make a great game they don’t necessarily know about eSports and it’s interesting that they might not know how to do jewel toilet brackets or how they should format something or where do they do qualifies or where are their games being played right now and who would they run those qualifies which companies would run those qualifies do they use Dreamhack do they use PG out of the use esau do they use MLG that they don’t know these answers right they’ve got a vague idea but they actually don’t know so a lot depends on what they’ve got planned for their game and then who they kind of co-op to help them build it as new sport and I think sometimes there is an attempt by some companies who look at and go oh yay sports it’s pretty cool it’s amazing let’s do it without actually thinking how do we do that or does our game actually suit eSports right rocket League was never intended to be an eSport but the people behind it loving sports right and it’s kind of a sports so it makes sense that yes there’s going to be a competitive element so it was a huge success like external final yes all the Slayer so it makes total sense they would make a league for it brilliant okay that works rainbow six does it have the elements within it to make it any sport I mean it doesn’t have a scoreboard to start with so that was that was a bit of a bummer it didn’t have a timer on it in the first place with respect AMI so that makes it hard for the commentate generally mean it’s like you did these fundamental things in the game to start with if it’s going to succeed as a nice pot and then you need people professionals inning sports they’ve got experience about how to take a game that is great that is fun and make it a nice port and understand how the community reacts to that and that’s that’s a hard job so whether these things succeed or not i think is more dependent on tapping into the experience that’s already there whether they use a consultant like me or they get a big company and any sports and ask them for their advice and help them and if you look at some of the games that perhaps weren’t any sport 34 years ago what if tanks is a good example look at the word the ESL did with world of tanks and were there with their league and they have a world championship every year which is fantastic and I think whilst it might not be mainstream sports it’s certainly well supported they’re getting over a hundred thousand concurrent viewers watching which would suggest to me that actually that’s working quite nicely as a nice for now and what about the newest the latest player on eSports scene yet the overwatch yeah I will watch well this debate is my fighting right now created to become an eSport because wizard they have been announcing this for a long time like hots and all the other stuff and from the first impression how the way you see it yeah are they really good at it or not uh I think blizzard of made a phenomenal game I really do and I don’t say that lightly it’s probably the most enjoyable game I’ve played for the last ten years bar none it’s great for a number of different type of people I’ve got FPS people to play with me I’ve got people have never played an FPS playing with me who absolutely adore the game they really do love the game they found a couple of heroes that they really enjoy playing on they fit into the team well and there’s a number of reasons for that the story lines have been great the law behind the characters fantastic the shorts have been terrific moving quality shorts they’ve been producing and porn yeah yeah and and then on top of all of that the game is easy to get into hard to master so in many ways it’s the perfect game for the last ten years so that’s the vector that Blizzard has taken so basically they have heroes of the storm which is really simple like ordinary MOBAs but games are shorter everything’s tight action is more dynamic the same things go with other watch so basically this game has a little of novelty because there’s lots of team fortress but all the routine all the unnecessary and dull stuff is basically removed yes we have absolute concentration fun yeah and what heroes are legends name three heroes that are top your favorites my personal favorites I’ve been playing a lot of hanza annoyingly for most players they’re playing me they don’t like my arrows which is fine I think it’s great it’s kind of skillful in some ways and not skillful in other ways I’ve been really enjoying some power and it was pretty highly ranked when I left I don’t think it is now because everyone’s beaten it but my phone is pretty pretty decent i think when i’ve played in teams and then after that it’s like a mixture of widow reaper yeah mostly attack heroes mostly attack or defense heroes i think i’ve played like zero supports zero tanks since the game came out i played them in the closed beta you should try zenyatta is really good I’m not it’s too passive for me I want to get in the fire fire when I want to be wandering else he can’t be really active and firepower he’s just slow and very thin okay I didn’t I’ll trust you why shout head that’s all that’s that’s his only problem now and in terms of platforms so okay we have disciplines yep also we have a confession in platforms we have it bolts we have twitch traditionally and now Facebook life is just a couple of weeks ago they started and bam they are streaming over watch that the first contracted gains so should we expect more appearing of more platforms not just for casting but as face it as organizing and managing all this competitive stuff I don’t know I don’t have competition of the current players I think I think it’s probably about right right now I think you might get one or two like Facebook come in it’s not specifically for eSports it’s it’s a live streaming platform but it’s not specifically for eSports so I don’t I don’t necessarily think that will see more or less come in I think we have what we have right now there’s some dedicated ones like a zoo boo and hitbox and they’re there they’re here for the video game side of it Facebook aren’t necessarily there for the video game side of it youtube in the last 12 months have made more of a play for the gaming side of it and certainly for the eSports side of it as well and I think that’s natural when you look at who owns them it’s very much google versus amazon in that in that respect and i don’t necessarily see that going away any day soon but i think what we’ll probably see over the next three is and eSports is is a sort of convergence of companies and we’ll actually see less if anything because i think companies will just start to narrow down a little bit probably the same as organizers as well i think we’ll see less organizers in three years from now than we currently see because they’ll be bought out they’ll be amalgamated they’ll be purchased by developers or publishers potentially or dude even TV companies as well and the same with TV we’ll see more TV coming I think over the next three years because they won’t want to miss out you know I’m sure Fox and Murdock are sitting there right now watching turner thinking okay well watch that we’ll see how that pans out and then we’ll make our move and we’ll do our thing and there are plenty of those around so I don’t think we should be too worried about it I think I think platform competition is good and healthy and I don’t think we’re going to see it disappear overnight because you choose which aren’t going anywhere right so whether the others succeed or not doesn’t really matter from my personal point of view and obviously I wish them well but I think in the end it’ll come down to two or three big players okay so let’s hope that quality of a quantity really pays off yeah so again thank you for your time and before we later bro would you like to what do you like to give any shoutouts just a shout out to all the people that have supported me over the years and helped me get to me you know to where I am thank you for the interview obviously thanks to vow for inviting me out with pgl to determine in a major and hope we do you proud that was bold Challinor also known as red eye so goodbye have an time

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